The Clean Industry Podcast
A podcast where we talk about industrial decarbonization and cleantech innovations.
The Clean Industry Podcast
Hydrogen 101: The colors of hydrogen - Turquoise (pt. 2)
In the latest epidose of The Clean Industry Podcast, and we went deep into a topic that gets oversimplified way too often: methane splitting.
At its core, the idea is simple. Split methane into hydrogen and solid carbon instead of burning it into CO₂. Where it gets interesting is how you do that, and what actually works at scale.
We talked through the main technology routes and their trade-offs. Plasma-based systems can prove scale but come with high electricity demand and mostly carbon black as the output. Molten metal and pure thermal approaches look elegant on paper but struggle with extreme temperatures, fouling, and mechanical complexity. Solid catalyst routes stand out because they operate at lower temperatures and give control over the carbon product.
That carbon detail matters. If the carbon forms with larger graphitic nuclei, downstream graphitization takes less time and energy compared to conventional synthetic graphite. That is a cost and CO₂ advantage that often gets missed when the focus is only on hydrogen.
On the hydrogen side, the appeal is practical. Many industries already sit on gas infrastructure. Decarbonization can start with modest hydrogen blends and scale up as equipment allows, without betting everything on new infrastructure from day one.
We also touched on policy. Technology-neutral regulation tends to speed things up. Picking winners too early tends to slow deployment and push projects to regions with clearer rules.
At the end of the day, customers care about emissions, speed, and cost. Methane splitting only works if it delivers on all three, with real uptime, bankable offtakes, and audited footprints.
If you are interested in what practical decarbonization actually looks like in heavy industry, this episode is worth a listen.
Welcome back Matti.
Matti:Thank you.
Sonja:So last time we were recording this podcast, you left me hanging a little bit because I asked you. I've been here at Hycamite for a few years and I've learned a lot about methane splitting, but you're the expert. So I wanted you to teach me something about methane splitting that I don't know.
Matti:Well, to put it on a positive way for you, I mean I was just saying that you are such a quick learner that this is a very demanding task.
Sonja:I feel like that's an excuse.
Matti:No worries. But I do have a question to you.
Sonja:Okay.
Matti:So you know that we are making graphite, or we can make graphitic carbon and then we can produce graphite after that. We have also mentioned that how low our carbon footprint is towards the synthetic graphite that is being produced now. But do you know why it is so? What is the root cause for it? I know that you already know it has been discussed here that the graphitization time and perhaps even the temperature are lower for our graphite, but why?
Sonja:Well, I mean this is Hydrogen 101, so I feel like you're evading that part a little bit, but I would say, with my expertise, that the graphitization process is what sets us apart from synthetic graphite. So for synthetic, it's a long process. It takes a lot of energy.
Matti:Yes.
Sonja:And for our graphite, because it comes out of the methane splitting process as graphitic carbon, and it has to undergo a graphitization process, but that part is a lot shorter and requires less energy.
Matti:Correct. Why?
Sonja:What do you mean why?
Matti:Why does that require less energy?
Sonja:Do I need to be a chemist to understand this?
Matti:Well, perhaps, but as I mentioned, you are a quick learner, so you could have learned this from the internal discussions within the company.
Sonja:Are you saying I haven't done my job?
Matti:No. No. So it is the graphitization time can be shorter because the ratio or the rate of the graphitization or the graphitic that how much graphite we have is better in our graphite or graphitic carbon than in a competing product. So how the synthetic graphite is being produced, and this is cutting some corners straight, but how the synthetic graphite is being produced, you have needle bed coke that has more graphitic areas there. They're like nucleo, that you have this nuclei, and and then from those when you apply heat, you know, the whole graphite or the graphite flakes start to grow. And that takes time.
Sonja:Yeah.
Matti:In our case, as we have the catalyst process and we can actually define a little bit more that what kind of carbon we are producing, those nuclei that what we have in our graphitic carbon are bigger than in the needle bed coke.
Sonja:Okay.
Matti:And that's why we need less time and less energy.
Sonja:I am learning something new. Well, luckily, in our R&D team, we have lots of people with a PhD on carbon or catalysts. So I think maybe we could have someone from that team to explain this even further.
Matti:We can think about that one for the future. Let's have a look. Yes.
Sonja:All right. Well, back to hydrogen then. Today we are continuing on the topic of methane splitting. But first, I want to wish everyone welcome to The Clean Industry Podcast. And as you know, this podcast is brought to you by Hycamite. And we're a company that produces clean hydrogen and solid carbon by splitting methane. In this podcast, we explore the technologies and innovations that shape the future of industrial decarbonization. And this episode, methane splitting episode number two, is part of a series called Hydrogen 101. And here we break down the fundamentals of hydrogen, what it is, how it's produced, and how it can be used. And today we even mentioned carbon because that's a part of methane splitting.
Matti:Correct.
Sonja:My name is Sonja, I'm your host, and my co-host Matti Malkamäki is a longtime energy entrepreneur, a visionary in cleantech, and a leading voice in Europe's hydrogen economy. And now, even the carbon economy. Welcome back to Hydrogen 101. Last time we talked about the basics of methane splitting. We talked about the terminology, why it should be called methane splitting. We talked a little bit about CO2 emissions, compared it with other technologies. We mentioned a little bit about the different types of methane splitting. Where do you want to start today? Should we talk about all the different types of methane splitting and how they work? Because there are differences.
Matti:Yes. So we have different kinds of ways how to split the methane molecule. And it was discussed in the previous podcast. So we have, for example, plasma. You have high temperature plasma where the temperature in the torch can be more than 2000 degrees of centigrade.
Sonja:Oh.
Matti:Really high.
Sonja:Yeah.
Matti:And you have like a big reactor where you have this plasma zone, and then you turn or pass the methane to that zone, and then you have the split happening. So that you have then the hydrogen and you have the carbon. With those temperatures, and if you think about that, how plasma is being formed there with a very high amount of power, it is quite a radical reaction, and therefore you have carbon black in those temperatures that is being produced, and then you have the hydrogen. That requires a lot of power. So it is quite a power-exhaustive process and therefore not really very competitive when you think about solutions towards where you have catalysts and so forth. So instead of like in a catalyst means of producing methane or making the methane splitting, plasma is by far using most power on this group of technologies.
Sonja:Is it heat or electricity?
Matti:It's electricity. And you can lower that amount by a process that is called plasmalysis. I know that there are some companies that developing also such processes where you actually boost that plasma zone with microwaves, and then you can have less temperature. And there again, the carbon that is being produced is mostly carbon black, as what we know at the moment. And there you have less power need so that you're able to make it a little bit more energy efficient way. Microwave does have or does bring some issues there, or features perhaps better. In the plasma reactors, I mean the one that Monolith has built in Nebraska is a really big one. So you have producing a lot of hydrogen and a lot of carbon, carbon black.
Sonja:Do you know what the capacity is of that thing?
Matti:I have heard different numbers. I don't want to refer to something in public that I'm not 100% sure. But it is relatively big. I think that it is the biggest hydrogen methane building plant in the world. We have the largest in Europe and second biggest in the world, as what we know, but I think Monolith's is a little bit bigger. And then you have this plasmalysis where you have the microwave, but the microwave causes issues on the sizing of the sites. So typically these plasmalysis reactors are far smaller in terms of capacity. So we are only talking about tens of kilos of hydrogen per day or something like that. And they are used in relatively small applications. And in those applications, again, they are used close to the end customer but still with less capacity. You then have molten metal, molten metal catalysts, there are several companies that are producing it and they are such that you have actually molten metal, say, tin for example, and through that molten metal reactor, you pass the methane through, and there the split happens, and then you have the carbon that stucks in this molten metal and the hydrogen you know passes through, and then you have a separate process. There are several different kinds of where you can actually extract then the carbon from this molten metal catalyst.
Sonja:It sounds difficult to me, as just if I'm just thinking with my regular brain and not chemistry brain, but it sounds difficult to extract.
Matti:It's by far, I mean, of course, a lot more how to say, demanding than, for example, with the solid catalysts. Yeah. So that is of course, when you have something that is molten and it's metal, you know that the temperatures are high, and then you have these separation processes there. So it is definitely something that where you do have some issues on the process status. We have discussed with several companies, some larger oil and gas companies as well, that have said that they have developed this kind of technology and they have tried to see that okay, whether you can make it on an industrial scale. But so far what we know at least is that they are on a smaller size of reactors than, for example, ours is. The last, before going to our technology, is just applying pure heat. And this is like the only methane splitting technology that you can actually say that it pyrolysis because it only consumes heat.
Sonja:Right.
Matti:So that technology you have the reactor that is really hot, about say 1300 degrees of centigrade or something, so really hot. And if you put methane there, it just breaks because of the heat itself. So there's no catalysts needed, or something like that. It's just the pure heat that breaks the molecule. But to apply that kind of heat to the reactor means that you need to have a lot of heat power coming through the walls of the reactor or some heating elements within the reactor to that methane. And that causes issues because then the carbon gets stuck on those metal parts and then it's clogging the whole reactor. So that is quite demanding in that sense. So that when you have that kind of temperatures in the metal, you understand that the metal is not even red anymore. It might be yellow already because of the heat. So it's almost it's melting or such, and that causes so that it is very adhesive to the carbon so that the carbon likes to get stuck there, and that causes like insulation layer there. And the last one that we are progressing or getting further with is to use solid catalysts. And there the problem with some other companies has been that okay, how to make the catalysts you know long enough so that they stay and they're not getting clogged.
Sonja:They have a lifetime, right?
Matti:They do have a lifetime. I mean, everything has a lifetime when we are here talking in the industrial processes. But we have overcome that lifetime issue with our technology. So the catalyst know-how is what we have. And it's more about that what kind of carbon we are producing. So that's what we are targeting at the moment. So the lifetime assessment is...
Sonja:Sorry to interrupt. I just wanted to point out because of the topic, Hydrogen 101, the purpose of the catalyst is to affect the type of carbon that comes out, but also the energy efficiency of the process, right? It lowers the reaction temperature. Correct. Yes. So that's for those of the listeners who are maybe not that aware of that part. Okay. Thank you.
Matti:You're welcome.
Sonja:Was there anything else you wanted to mention about the different technologies?
Matti:No, that's what I wanted to say. I mean, that's like the five different major technologies used in the methane splitting at the moment.
Sonja:So it sounds like there are differences in these technologies in the efficiency because there's such a big variation in the reaction heat or the temperature. And then there's variation in the type of carbon that is produced, and then there are differences in how the carbon is, do you call it extracted or separated from the..
Matti:Yes, in some cases, like with the molten metal, you need to process that away from the catalyst a little bit different way than the others. But yeah, there there are differences, I mean, all over. And I think that when talking about methane splitting as such, I mean we already now have these different ways how to split the methane, and I do see a room for practically all of them. So that it's like you need to apply that kind of technology to that part or that application and the other kind of technology to something else. So I'm not seeing it that way that there's like one that you should choose or just you know put all your money on. Yeah. But it should be rather that way that you need to understand that to which part of the the industry descent or that application that technology you know applies to.
Sonja:Yeah. So if we're talking about our technology, then solid metal catalyst, methane splitting. Where do you see the biggest applications for the hydrogen part?
Matti:For the hydrogen part, definitely in the industrial decarbonization. So we think that the hydrogen is a good way to decarbonize industry and rather big industry than small ones. So that is our target. So we have a very energy-efficient system that is scalable. We have chosen such technical components into our plants that we know that are scalable and used widely in the big industry, and that is what we want to do.
Sonja:So now we know how methane splitting works, and we know about all the different technologies how methane splitting can be used. Can we talk about one of your favorite subjects? Regulation.
Matti:Yes. So this is something where I have perhaps the biggest difficulties when I'm talking to investors, for example, that some of the investors and even some from the industry, they don't really understand that what is the role of the regulation in this kind of business. And for the man of the street that is even more difficult. And now at this stage I think that it's such also for those that are making the regulations, i.e. the politicians. So when we have had visitors from here, they sometimes really think that okay, why and how and what is why do we need to do and why you need to have the regulation in place and and so forth. I think that the whole world should have regulation on the targets. That if we say that okay, we want to deduct the CO2 emissions, then let's focus on that one. That let the engineers, let the industry to start lowering the CO2 emissions the best possible way ever. I mean, just find new technologies, utilize the existing ones, develop them further, and you know make the world CO2 free or CO2 neutral or even in the future CO2 negative. That is what we should do. Instead, what we are doing in almost all parts of the world is that we are picking technologies. So we are saying that you can use this technology here and that technology there, and you can't mix them because of something and quite often this is like a political game. We see a lot more technology neutral policies established in countries like or locations like USA and Canada. Also UK is moving that way, Southeast Asia as well. But then especially here in Europe, the situation is vice versa. And this has been heavily debated in Europe as well. In the past times we have seen the Draghi's report and everything about the neutrality that what we should have. But for the European politicians, especially for somehow it is very important to pick the winners that they call. Let's pick a winner. Let's pick that technology that we believe that will be like a winner of the future. And with the hydrogen, when green hydrogen was picked, we have clearly seen that that was a mistake. It was a mistake because the green hydrogen will come, but it will not come as a first. There has to be the other ways of producing and decarbonizing industry, decarbonizing the grid, and then we can start using the green hydrogen more and more and more. Now we have selected, for example, the turquoise hydrogen so that it will be part of the regulation. We know that there's a Low Carbon Hydrogen Delegated Act coming.
Sonja:Yes.
Matti:But even that one is not perfect. It's not completely technology neutral. So that there are some limitations. And when you have the Low Carbon Hydrogen Delegated Act, then you have the RFNBO, the Renewable Fuels of Non-Biological Origin directive, and you have all these different directives. And you can see that actually they don't really, they don't really match. So that there are things that you can do, and then there are things that you cannot do, and it's really very complicated. Even for the green hydrogen, it is complicated. And for the new technologies is sometimes even more complicated. So in brief terms, yes, we can decarbonize industry here in Europe. But no, the regulation does not yet give us the mandate to decarbonize, for example, the fuel production or the fertilizer production in Europe. So there's this kind of of a...
Sonja:Discrepancy?
Matti:Yeah, and it's I mean it's really difficult to understand why. So why can we make if we have a partner that would start making, for example, low carbon ammonia here for the fertilizer, we can produce it in Europe and we can sell it to USA, but we cannot use it or sell it into Europe. So that's that's really weird.
Sonja:Do you see a change coming there?
Matti:Yes. So we have discussed about this directly with the politicians, directly with the Commission and so forth. And I think that the biggest thing that what we have there is misunderstanding that what affects to what.
Sonja:Yeah.
Matti:And we need to speak more about the technology neutrality and all this kind of stuff. And we can see that so that even here in Finland we have people that are working in such positions that they should work for all the technologies. And they are even, I've even met with a researcher that is doing the research in the hydrogen for you know different kinds of technology. And even that guy didn't understand that why the regulation has to be technology neutral. So if the scientists themselves don't always understand it, then how could the politicians? And but this is how it is. Luckily for us, the ISO regulation, ISO standards, is more or less fully supporting our technology. So that is, I don't at least I'm not aware of any issues there that we should be worried about or concerned in that sense that we are not covered. We are fully covered. But the the domestic regulation and the European level regulation especially is sometimes more tricky. This is on the other hand, this is something that all the Europeans know that we have had this discussion about, for example, the status of the nuclear power generation here in Europe. That there are countries that are heavily supporting it, like Finland and France, and then there are countries that are heavily against it, like Germany has been, for example. Not anymore though, so that they are changing their opinion. Austria still is, I think, and so forth.
Sonja:And Europe is still a whole continent with different kinds of countries, and all these different countries have different circumstances, whether it's just weather conditions and availability of different raw materials, so it seems odd to have the same kind of regulation throughout the whole continent.
Matti:Yeah, but I think that that's the European dilemma as a whole. So it's not just about turquoise hydrogen but it is the typical approach that we have here.
Sonja:Right. When talking to customers because we have customers that are, well I would say global, is that sometimes a hurdle or a question because they would have to have some kind of solution in one country and then a completely different solution in another country. Is that something that comes up?
Matti:Yes. So we have a couple of cases where we have a customer that has had a look on our technology and they have said that this is really exciting. We want to do this and we want to you know start the preparations for a site and in both cases that just now come to my mind, I mean there might be others, but we have two cases where I have been personally involved with a customer they have after some quick you know fact checking or something like that one, they have decided to pick up a location in USA. So they have said that instead of making this one in in Europe, we want to go to USA because that's regulation wise better.
Sonja:Okay. Well in this case when we're talking about regulation I still find it good that we have countries who can show some example with the technology neutrality. And we've seen already a change within the last few years in Europe. So I hope that it's gonna change even more.
Matti:I think that actually last six months have been really speeding up in that sense. So that the technology neutrality and especially how Germany is seeing that actually the way that how the was done in the past so that it cannot be the way forward so that they have to start rethinking the things and I think that's a positive signal for everybody in the industry.
Sonja:And I think it's a good idea for us to have a deeper conversation about regulation when this new European regulation comes in place because it's expected to be in place...
Matti:...still this fall.
Sonja:This fall?
Matti:yes before Christmas.
Sonja:Okay but we'll keep an eye on that and we'll have that conversation when we can read it and then we'll discuss what we think. Going back to methane splitting as a technology, would you say that the biggest benefit of this technology is the lowering of the CO2 emissions?
Matti:Yes I think that it's a very critical part so we have industrial customers that are we're willing to lower the decarbonization but that is like the main driver for all the hydrogen but if you then start thinking that okay yes let's assume that everybody wants to decarbonize then the question is that how? How do you want to decarbonize? And there comes then features like the speed i.e how fast we can do it the costs what does it cost is there a gradual kind of way to you know in steps to this decarbonization or do I need to do everything in at once and all this kind of stuff. So that you then start thinking that okay what has to happen in order for us to decarbonize our industry and I think that for the methane splitting what we can offer is easiness. So the customers they already are coupled with a natural gas infrastructure. They already have their site that they want to decarbonize so typically along you know close to those sites there's some industrial area that is available we can say that okay we come in here and we place our units very close to theirs so we don't need any additional infrastructure not in in power nor in gas and only the hydrogen delivery I mean this pipeline that is then short is needed for the customer to start using the hydrogen. They can also do it gradually so that they can say that okay first we use a blend so we are blending say 10%, 20% or whatever that is of of hydrogen to their existing system and then they are seeing that okay they they need to start changing the armature as the technology evolves so that they are changing the valves and the the you know all the automation devices and the pipeline so that they can take bigger amounts of hydrogen to their sites and then we can you know step up with the production. So we can offer this kind of how to say, fluent solution so that this is how you can do it. And one of the things that is really important for all the customers is the cost.
Sonja:Yes.
Matti:So we don't believe in ESG premium so that if you have a green product you cannot say that okay it is like five times more expensive than the existing you know thing is, but what we want to do instead is that we want to offer such a solution that when we are producing the hydrogen and when we are selling the carbon that we are able to match to those costs and those additional features that the customers are having so that if they need to for example pay for the emissions some sort of of taxes or penalty payments or something like that. And then we can say that okay with that saving that we are offering to you then you don't actually need to you know do anything. You can invest on these sites if you want to, but we can also play it differently and then we just you know charge the decarbonization fee and some others are investing so that's how the process works. We want to be as much customer focused as possible in this sense so that they really can have a good solution for decarbonizing their industry.
Sonja:And what kind of questions do you hear from customers? What are the most common ones?
Matti:Most common ones? How to get to Kokkola? (laugh) So...
Sonja:Well first you take a plane to Helsinki and then you can take a train to Kokkola, it takes around four hours it's really easy to get there, we have great infrastructure, we have an airport, we have the train, boat, whatever...
Matti:Yeah so the international customers they typically fly because of that, but that is about the you know traveling stuff but that is actually, I mean joke aside, it is the most asked question. Can we come and see it?
Sonja:Yeah.
Matti:And as you know we have been quite successful in that sense so that we have said yes you can and they have, you know they are coming in groups. We have the next visitor coming here tomorrow...
Sonja:We should get a helipad on the...
Matti:No no no no this is, you should know this is a no fly zone. So industrial park. But anyway I think that when we come to the customers that when they are asking that okay what is this solution all like the cost is of course one of the big questions there so that okay what does it cost? What are your assumptions on that one and how does it work but very soon actually they want to see it. And when they see that okay how it is working and we have some good stuff that we can show to them already with the pictures and with the diagrams and you know results on both hydrogen and carbon and they are, it's actually usually a very easy sales discussion. But of course these are big projects always and therefore it just takes time.
Sonja:Yeah. Do customers ever have the picture that we are at lab scale or something that it's just like beginning of the technology? Yes. They do okay so when we can actually show that this is happening on industrial scale that's what they want to see.
Matti:That's what they want to see and they want to see the team so that okay how the people are you know whether this is like a professional team of people working and and so forth so that is I mean you need to see like a industrial level people and and people that have you know come from different parts of the different industries and you know can really work together with these partners. So that is important.
Sonja:I'm going back to the CO2 part a little bit the emissions part is that something that investors or customers are asking about is that something that they place very high on their list?
Matti:So of course the decarbonization is like the how to say the base stone for everything that what we do but for the decarbonization as such it is then that okay how you are doing it and what are the costs on that one and all this kind of stuff so they want to see the emissions you know on a full scale and it is important for us to show them that we are not calculating only like, say this part of the process that what is happening there but they want to see the whole chain. So we have all these scope 1, 2 and 3 emissions that we need to show and for us the scope 4 I mean the handprint, carbon handprint that what are what is the effect but the world is going more towards reporting more and more precise way and and see-through way that okay what are the real emissions of practically everything we do and we want to be part of that that work whether it's on the decarbonization side i.e the hydrogen or the carbon side and even in the carbon the customers are really really interested in that one
Sonja:It still goes hand in hand with cost everyone would need to decarbonize but they're not willing to pay a premium for that.
Matti:The world doesn't work that way that you can you know pay something that the others don't so you need to be making money with , the customers need to be making money with their own products.
Sonja:Well in our case with methane splitting when you have a product or products that have low carbon footprints the cost is competitive with like existing products that are on the market. There's not much need for new infrastructure when we build our plants aside from hydrogen you have these great high value carbon products as well. To me it , you said there's no silver bullet but to me it kind of sounds like it could be a silver or golden bullet. What do you think is stopping methane splitting or is anything stopping methane splitting?
Matti:I'm a positive thinker and as an entrepreneur you have to be, and I think that at the moment the only thing stopping us is practically time. So that we have the technology in place, we have the customers in place, we have the funding in place but there's now that what we need to show is that this is commercially available and commercially profitable business so that these sites actually make sense to our customers and of course to Hycamite as well to our investors and once that has been proven I think that then it is time really to run. We also need to discuss a lot about this possibility that what we can do and and that is perhaps the biggest thing at the moment so that there's been a lot of hype and a lot of you know blah blah around the hydrogen that I think that it was a mistake in a couple of years' time and...
Sonja:You're talking about green hydrogen?
Matti:Yeah and not only green hydrogen I mean it was green hydrogen of course was playing a big big part of that one. But also so that everybody was thinking or not everybody but quite a few people were thinking that okay hydrogen is the silver bullet and now when we are talking to customers or to investors, the moment when I'm saying the word hydrogen everybody feels like "okay we have heard this story". And that is that is not I mean and that's why we are talking about the decarbonization so because that is the thing, not the hydrogen the decarbonization and making business with that one. That is the thing and we need to spread the message and be the forerunners in this business and show that okay you can actually make a good business with this one, you can get people workplaces and you can make it a better world in that sense that we are decarbonizing and changing the things and also providing new solutions to electrification and even to the defense industry with this graphite and so forth. So that is important. We need to speak, we need to be out there and talk that okay this is the way forward and that's it and then it will start growing.
Sonja:So in my opening I mentioned that you are a leading voice in Europe's hydrogen economy. If I say that you're a leading voice in methane splitting do you have a message to other methane splitting companies around the world?
Matti:See you next time I mean
Sonja:How could we best collaborate to...
Matti:Well we already are collaborating so that we have a group here in Europe so that we have a joint WhatsApp group where we are talking and and sharing our thoughts and seeing that okay who does what and and so forth, we have or I have met you know, with folks from Australia and from USA and Canada and so forth so we are in discussions with them. There's been discussions that we should form some sort of methane splitting alliance or or something like that. But we are also busy on our own stuff that we haven't yet have had any time for that one. So perhaps we need to do it. Yes.
Sonja:Okay sounds good is there anything you feel like in these two episodes about methane splitting something that you still want to mention or highlight before we wrap up?
Matti:No I think that perhaps next thing where we could speak about methane splitting just came to my to my thoughts is that how we can use this technology on hard-to-abate industries like for example in the marine because we have as you know so we have two investors from maritime industry, and we have some great news and great approaches there that what we can share for the listeners in a short while and yeah perhaps discuss a word about that.
Sonja:I think that's a really good idea. I think we could do that in our upcoming episode.
Matti:Let's do so.
Sonja:But thank you for these two episodes about methane splitting I think this has been very insightful I knew a lot from before but now I know a little bit more and I hope that our listeners have learned a lot. So please let us know if you have any questions we'd be really happy to answer them on LinkedIn or Instagram or even send us an email. Thanks for listening to The Clean Industry Podcast and Hydrogen 101. See you next time!
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